Holding Subway Doors, Sending Preprinted Cards, Using Recycled Vases, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go. Our first question is quote, "I'm wondering about the etiquette of holding subway doors. Despite the signs saying not to, I always appreciate when someone wedges their foot in the door so I can run in before the train leaves, and I always feel like a bit of a mini hero when I offer the same courtesy to another person who is clearly in a rush. However, I know that excessive holding of doors can delay the train and everyone in it. Is a big help to one or two people more significant than a small inconvenience to hundreds, or am I being selfish because of the dopamine rush I get from helping someone make it on the train on time?"

Leah: This question reminded me of The Search for Spock, where they're like, "Does the good of the one outweigh the good of the many?"

Nick: [laughs] I think it's a valid question. Yes.

Leah: If you've never been to New York, it is—you'll be, like, running up the stairs because there's a train coming in, and there's somebody running with you. You just are friends in running. You don't know each other, but there is a camaraderie. And then one of you will get there first and either, like, throw your body up against the door to get the other person in, or you hold it with your foot. And there is that moment where you both feel like you've won.

Nick: Yeah. No, there is a sense of accomplishment and teamwork. Yeah, for sure.

Leah: And in a city where often you're very—it's very solitary, even though you're with lots of people, it is a moment of connection. You're holding a door for a stranger. I think it's a beautiful moment.

Nick: Yeah. No, okay.

Leah: It's seconds. It's seconds.

Nick: It is very fleeting, yes. So you are pro?

Leah: I'm pro.

Nick: Interesting.

Leah: Because it's not like—I've never been on a train where someone's just standing there holding it.

Nick: Oh, I have.

Leah: And they just keep holding it for, like, 30 people. It's one or two people.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I don't want you holding the train doors because I think you are now sacrificing the happiness of upwards of 2,000 people. There could be upwards of 2,000 people on a subway train, right? It's a lot of people for two people. And you've also inconvenienced everybody else behind that train that's trying to be moving through the tubes, because the other trains can't move until this train does. So I think it's a cascading thing, and I think it's corrosive. I think it's corrosive on society.

Leah: Wow!

Nick: And I would rather you not do it.

Leah: You know what's corrosive on society, Nick? Is knowing there's a person directly behind you ...

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: ... who just couldn't run up the stairs as quick as you, and not just sticking your hand in that door to give them a second to get in.

Nick: Well, but then what if we damage the doors? I mean, this also can happen. You know, this is—it can actually damage the subway train.

Leah: Stop. We're not damaging the subway train.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: That's not happening.

Nick: No, I don't know. I really—I don't—obviously, I appreciate if somebody's held the doors open for me and can jump on the train. Sure.

Leah: Do you not, though? You appreciate it.

Nick: But I don't want to be responsible for inconveniencing other people.

Leah: This is how it goes: the doors try to close once, and then you have your foot wedged in it. And then ...

Nick: Well, I know how it works.

Leah: ... that person gets through in this. I'm explaining it to the people who haven't been on ...

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Yeah, it's literally the length of a snap. They step in behind you.

Nick: Well, if it's that. There is definitely the type of door holding though, where it's like, "Oh, I'm holding the doors open so that my Girl Scout troop can get on and make it through the turnstiles." And as they're, like, you know, swiping their Metro cards. Like, there's definitely that.

Leah: If you're still up —you have a group and they're still up swiping their Metro card? No, you gotta wait 'til the whole group gets there, they're all ready to walk on the train. But if you have a Girl Scout group—great example—and they're all there on the platform, and they just all couldn't get on on time? Then you're gonna hold it.

Nick: Well, okay. I think—holding doors—Well, okay. That's—that's different because I would hold the door if I'm gonna be leaving somebody behind.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: That's a different thing. That's—but ...

Leah: But you're still holding the door.

Nick: Someone is—well, but I do feel like the circumstances are different though, because ...

Leah: But it's the same outcome.

Nick: Oh, Leah. But sometimes different etiquette paths come to the same etiquette destination. So, you know, we cannot necessarily be the-ends-justify-the-means all the time.

Leah: I'm just saying ...

Nick: That's a dangerous ...

Leah: ... that we're still holding up thousands of people. We could just cut our group off and be like, "Call me when you get there. I don't want to hold up thousands of people."

Nick: [laughs] Okay. I mean, I think that there is something to be said for that, then. That's true. That's true.

Leah: Cut to Nick doing that to me next time in New York. "I don't want to hold anybody up!"

Nick: Bye! I just feel like there is something about trying to hold doors open for one or two people, which does hold up everybody else, and potentially thousands of people behind it during rush hour. And I don't love that. So I guess the question is: can you do it in a way that's not gonna damage the subway and actually break the train cumulatively over time, and can it be done in a way where, like, there is no inconvenience beyond a few seconds, and those seconds don't add up to hours and years over the time? I mean, that's why it's corrosive. It's just like, oh, it's just like this one thing. But, you know, if everybody's doing it, though, if everybody does this every day in the subway, like, what have we done? Like, this is madness.

Leah: Have you seen a person's face when they're trying so hard to get to the train, and they're running and they're right there? They're right there, and who knows what they had to get to?

Nick: I guess my instinct is just like, I would rather you not. Leah, you make some interesting points. Maybe I cannot root my feelings in logic or any etiquette rules.

Leah: No, your—your feelings are logical that one second over time across all the platforms adds up to a lot.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And everybody's—I totally see that, and I understand. I just emotionally can't get on board—no pun intended! I cannot get on board.

Nick: [laughs] And I do appreciate benefiting from other people committing this etiquette crime, but then that makes me an accessory. But then, like, am I gonna be like, "Oh, no, no. You go ahead," if someone holds the door open for me? Like, of course I'm not.

Leah: No, you're gonna step through it and feel like you won.

Nick: I'm going to feel like I won.

Leah: It looks like the subway is the one place I do not follow the rules.

Nick: Yeah, that's—yeah. Interesting, Leah. You're happy to be a rule breaker in the subway. Wow!

Leah: I mean, I take my backpack off, I don't take up space for other people. I'm not hogging two seats. I stand up for people who need to sit down. But I'll hold that door for somebody directly behind me.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess it's about doing something courteous in the moment to an individual that you recognize their humanity, versus this more nebulous sense of honoring the community. And I guess that's the tension here. And so faced with that choice, you want to go with the personal connection. And I guess faced with that choice, I would rather do the greater good. I want to do the thing that's gonna offer the most benefit. I'm gonna try to maximize.

Leah: I was going to say so it's exactly The Search for Spock, where I would say, "We're going for Spock."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "And I'm gonna put the entire crew at risk." [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. And I'm gonna say, "But what about the galaxy?"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Once again, Star Trek.

Leah: And I'm gonna say "What does the galaxy mean without individual relationships to people?"

Nick: Ooh! Okay. I mean, all of these are valid points. Thank you, Star Trek.

Leah: [laughs] I mean, this is such a hard ...

Nick: [laughs] Well, I mean, that's why this person needed to write to us. So I think you have both of our feelings about this, and do with this as you wish. So our next question is quote, "Is it tacky to give a thank-you card that has 'thank you' printed on it? The only blank cards I can find have glitter."

Leah: I feel like if you want Nick to come in on one side of a question, you just make the opposite side of that question have glitter.

Nick: Yeah, that's all you need to do. And then I'll be like, "I agree."

Leah: Do you want to hold the door for people on the subway, or do you want glitter to rain down upon everyone?

Nick: Hold the door! Hold it! Hold the door, let everybody through.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: No, I mean, this is not wrong. Yeah, I definitely live my life based on the glitter creed. So back to the cards, though. So we have some cards and we want to send a thank-you note, but the ones we have say 'thank you,' like, printed on the inside, or maybe on the outside. And actually, I don't know where it's printed, but somewhere on this piece of paper it says 'thank you.' And so the question is: is that fine?

Leah: I'm gonna say yes.

Nick: Yeah, I'm totally fine with that. But here's the deal: you cannot use the word 'thank you' that's preprinted in place of you writing the same thing. So you can't be like, "Dear Lisa comma," and then the preprinted thank you is there on the card already. And then you're like, "Love, Chad." Like, that—that does not work.

Leah: Oh yeah. No, you still gotta write a note.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I have thank-you cards that say 'thank you' in it. And then I write a little note. "Really appreciate the blank. So grateful for what—blankety blank."

Nick: Yes. So you have to write around it. You actually pretend that it's not there. You do want to make sure that the card you're sending is still appropriate. So I don't think we want to send, like, a 'Happy 50th Birthday,' like, to your nephew turning four. Like, I think if it's gonna be preprinted it does need to, like, at least be the same holiday or occasion or sentiment.

Leah: A) I don't think our letter-writers would do that. B) I will find the one time that you can do that.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: Because that's how I roll.

Nick: When?

Leah: Sometimes the card is so perfect for a person.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: But it doesn't match what the situation is.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And I will buy the card and then I'll just cross it out.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Okay. I mean, you have personalized it. And so that's a win.

Leah: Because it's so them, and I can't find it in anything else.

Nick: Well then that's great. Then actually that achieves something even greater, which is like, something that is specific, which is always what we want. Yes.

Leah: I think we can also agree that often children's birthday cards are the best cards.

Nick: Are they the best cards?

Leah: Some of them are so fun.

Nick: Yeah, I think they might have more color.

Leah: A lot of the adult cards they're like, "I can't believe how old you are." You know, you're like, "Can we get some fun cards?" I don't ...

Nick: [laughs] Right.

Leah: No!

Nick: So long story short, I feel like just ignore anything preprinted, write around it, and just write a note as you would. And then you can just sort of like it's in there, but it's not sort of the main event.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: That's it.

Leah: And then throw some glitter in that bad boy. [laughs]

Nick: Um, no. Okay, let's talk about glitter for a hot second. Am I alone? Are there people out there that are like, "I want glitter loose in my house?" Like, is this a type of person that I've just not met yet?

Leah: There are people that love glitter.

Nick: Oh, I love glittery things. I feel like optically, it's—it's a lovely thing. I don't like glitter as a noun in my house.

Leah: I've never really had loose, rampant glitter. It hasn't happened to me.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So ...

Nick: You never had a speck of something catch your eye in your apartment?

Leah: And then it's like a piece of glitter from a card? I mean, do you think that's really gonna throw off my whole axis?

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. No, I guess you could roll with that. Yeah.

Leah: If I had a pile of glitter, if somebody came in and dropped a pile of glitter and then turned a fan on?

Nick: Right.

Leah: That would be too much.

Nick: That would be—okay. All right, so there is a line for you.

Leah: I also respect your—how you feel about glitter. I get it. You don't want it, and I understand 100 percent.

Nick: Yes. I just don't know why we're making cards with glitter that does come loose in the mail and now is on your hands and now is in your house. I just don't know why as a product this exists. I just don't think this should be manufactured.

Leah: Because some people love glitter.

Nick: I mean, I can just live with this mystery.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Our next question is quote, "I recently went to my brother and his fiancé's bridal shower. Upon arriving, I placed the gift I had brought down on the dedicated table with the other gifts, and I noticed there was no guest book for me to sign, so I approached my brother's future mother-in-law, who had helped plan the event, and asked where I could leave my address next to my name. To this, she replied, 'Oh, the couple had decided that they wouldn't be sending out thank-you cards, so that wasn't going to be necessary.' After telling me this, she smiled at me, turned around and walked away. I was shocked. How could a couple decide that they just straight up weren't going to be mailing out thank-you cards? Is this a thing? Can a couple decide that they don't want to mail out thank-you cards after a shower? Is this acceptable in any situation? It has now been several weeks, and according to other members of my family, they still have no plans to prepare thank-you notes, whether virtual or in the physical mail. I'm relatively close to my brother, but his fiancé is still new to the family, and I don't know her that well, and I don't want to damage our relationship if this was her decision. What do I do now?"

Leah: Do you want to lead off?

Nick: Um, I—sure. [laughs] I mean, okay. Well, there's a lot of things happening in this question. I think the first thing is anytime we get a letter, which is, "Is this a thing?" I think nine times out of ten it is not a thing. So I feel like that is the case here. It is not a thing where we do something nice for somebody, and they choose actively to not show gratitude for it. And so that is not a thing. That's not a world I want to live in. I don't want to live in that world in which, like, oh, we just don't show gratitude for anything. And one of the mechanisms we do show gratitude is we say thank you in written form. There's lots of other ways to show gratitude, and any of those would be acceptable here. I'd take any of them. It does sound like our recipients of these gifts are choosing not to do any of them, and they are in a very good place with that. And I think that is problematic.

Leah: Well, I also love the mother-in-law, future mother-in-law was like, "Hey, we don't do that." And then just turned around and walked away.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, "Yeah, we don't do that in our family. We don't show gratitude. It's not a thing for us."

Leah: I also feel like there's a two-part question. There's: is this a thing?

Nick: No.

Leah: And then there's the: what do I do now?

Nick: So what do you do now? I mean, we do nothing.

Leah: Yeah, that's the thing.

Nick: Except we do file it away.

Leah: We file it.

Nick: You are allowed to file it away. And here's actually I think what is bonkers about this, the most bonkers thing: you have done this to your guests at your shower. Now shower gifts, those are the cheap ones, those are the light ones, the frivolous ones. Those are just sort of like, oh, this is just like a little something for your shower. The wedding gift is the gift. That's where people spend more money. That's the bigger gift. That's from the registry. Like, that's where the rubber meets the road. You have told all of your shower gifts who are all also invited to your wedding that, oh, by the way, we are ungrateful people. And I now, as a guest to your wedding, know this about you and I am now rethinking my wedding gift. Do I want to give one at all, or do I want to dial that way back? Oh, these are ungrateful people who will not acknowledge my generosity. No need to be very generous, then. That's what I think. That's how I would respond.

Leah: It would be so hard for me. I don't have a sibling, so I'm obviously speaking out of my personal knowledge, but I would imagine that having a sibling I would want to be like, "Hey, what are you doing? Like, you are coming off as ungrateful."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess there is a question: is there an opportunity to have that heart to heart with your sibling? Which is like, "Hey, totally cool if you don't want to send me a thank-you note for what I got you. Like, I get it. You're a sibling. Like, no problem. Like, doesn't bother me. But I do think maybe some of the other guests might be, so even though you said, like, 'Oh, we're not gonna do it,' you might want it anyway just because, you know, it may come across in a way that you don't realize." And so if there was that opportunity to have that conversation, you know, it probably would be good because, yeah, it's—it's pretty offensive.

Leah: I mean, not even a fun picture with the gift and a text. "Thank you so much!"

Nick: But also, it is so low effort to write thank-you notes. I mean, people make it into this big thing, some big labor. And honestly, it is so not hard to send thank-you notes. It really isn't. It really takes no time at all. I mean, I could probably do a hundred notes for the shower. I could probably do it in an hour with nice handwriting. Yeah, I could do it in an hour. Sure.

Leah: I understand that it is—most of us don't function the same way that you do, so it is ...

Nick: [laughs] Well, that's not my problem.

Leah: [laughs] I know. I know that it's not. But ...

Nick: Although it actually becomes my problem.

Leah: It has become your problem.

Nick: Having to be in the world with the rest of you.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, it's a problem every time I leave my house. Yeah.

Leah: But I think what's most interesting about this is that how blatant. "Oh, we don't do that.

Nick: Well, I mean, there's no subtle way to do this. You can't suddenly decide not to send thank-you notes because you either do or you don't. But yeah, I mean, to just straight up say, like, "Oh, it's not something that's happening. Enjoy the punch and the crudité." Yeah. I mean that's—I mean, I guess I appreciate it because now I'm not wondering. Because I mean, there is a feeling of being ghosted when you send a gift and you don't get an acknowledgment. And it's kind of like ghosting. You're like, "Oh, did they not like it? Or is it something I did?" And it's like, oh no, it's just that you're a bad person. So there is something nice. There is some finality here. There's some closure, which is like, "Oh, we got the gift. We are choosing not to say thank you for it. Good day."

Leah: I'm still stuck on that hundred thank-you notes in an hour. A hundred thank-you notes would probably take me a couple of weeks.

Nick: I mean, that might be ...

Leah: Because I'd have to—I'd have to agonize over each one. And then I would also be worrying about the other things I have to do, and then I'll be like, "Oh, did this look bad? Did I accurately express my gratitude?" I mean, you're not —you're not laying in that time for people who have a lot of anguish over what's happening.

Nick: Well, I might take more than 60 minutes for 100 notes. That does feel a little fast but, like, it'll be close. But let's also not make perfect be the enemy of good. I mean, a lot of people actually, I think, do feel this where, like, "Oh, my thank-you notes aren't going to be perfect, and therefore I need to not send them at all," which is like, oh no, no, a good thank-you note is better than one that wasn't sent.

Leah: I don't think people are trying not to send them. Obviously, in this case they are trying not to send them.

Nick: [laughs] Right.

Leah: They're just getting overwhelmed by feeling that they're ...

Nick: A lot of people do get paralyzed.

Leah: Yes.

Leah: Yes. And that's where I think we have some space for that because we all can't be Nick Leighton.

Nick: I feel like you should just send the note, because it's nice to express gratitude, and we do all want to live in a world in which we do appreciate the nice things that people do for us. And so we do need to do that. That is important for society and making it all run smoothly. So ...

Leah: How about we send people envelopes full of scratch tickets? "Thank you. Here's some whimsy."

Nick: That would be—I would be delighted. "Thank you so much for coming to our shower. It was so nice to see you. Oh, and that KitchenAid? What a treat! Here are some scratchers. Can't wait to see you in November at the wedding!" What a great note!

Leah: And it was also a callback.

Nick: And see how fast I just wrote it in my head?

Leah: Yeah, that was ...

Nick: Mm-hmm. Times a hundred. [laughs] But really, honestly people, it is not that difficult. Like, I don't know why people think it is.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Uh huh. So our next question is quote, "My frugal mother-in-law stocks up on vases and rose bowls when she shops at her local thrift store. When she orders flowers for someone, she will take the vase into the florist and ask them to use it for the arrangement. They sell vases and bowls in their shop, but they cheerfully agree to use hers. This strikes me as rather gauche, like bringing your own dinnerware to a restaurant, but the employees at the florist don't seem to mind. I also repurpose vases, but when I order those flowers, I take them home and arrange them myself. Is bringing your own vase to a florist an acceptable practice, or are these people just being nice to a charming little old lady?"

Leah: I kind of like the idea that she goes out and finds vases that she thinks are cute, and then brings them in, and then let's make flowers out of this.

Nick: Yeah. No, I actually like that because it does feel a little more personal, and it's nicer than maybe the generic, like, you know, square cube glass thing or whatever it is. Yeah, so I don't think there's any etiquette problem there, assuming you're picking appropriate vases for the person. Like, I don't want necessarily, like, some weird Winnie the Pooh vase when you're sending, like, you know, me a condolence bouquet. But, you know, as long as it's all contextual, that's good.

Leah: I think our letter-writer is worried that it's offensive to the people who work at the flower store.

Nick: Right. Or there's some commercial problem with this.

Leah: They may—well, they're not charging for the vessel. They're just charging for putting the bouquet together.

Nick: Right. And so it's not like they're out money.

Leah: Yeah, they're not out money. Also, I really feel that if they felt it was outside of their purview, they would say, "We don't do that."

Nick: I would say that if the vase you brought is some weird thing that requires, like, more labor somehow, like, it's, like, very wide or it doesn't hold flowers in the right way or required extra equipment somehow, or more of that, like, florist thingy that they put in there? Foam?

Leah: The green foam?

Nick: I think is the technical term. The green foam thing. Like, if it needed something extra because of something you did with this vase then, like, okay, I think we would pay for all that. But I don't think, yeah, there's nothing inherently wrong with BYOV.

Leah: BYOV. And I do like the idea that it feels more personal.

Nick: Yeah, so I approve.

Leah: I feel like our letter-writer really wanted us to come down against this idea, so I do feel bad about that, but I actually like the idea of the personal vases from different places.

Nick: Yeah. Why do you think our letter-writer wants us to shut this down?

Leah: I don't think our letter-writer likes it. Like, somebody showing—well, they compared it to showing up at a restaurant with your own cutlery, which I don't feel like that's what it is at all.

Nick: Well actually, I think the equivalent would be if I've hired a restaurant to do catering for me—because that could happen. Like, "Oh, your lasagna is amazing. I'm having a party. Can I buy a whole lasagna from you, and can I give you my ceramic dish to do it in?" Like, I've done that before, and I've given you actually the dish for you to make a lasagna in and now I have it in that thing rather than, like, some tinfoil thing. And I also think that's fine.

Leah: I bet she gets some funky vases too.

Nick: Yeah, I'm totally on board. And actually, I think more people should do this. I feel like actually this should be a thing.

Leah: I actually was thinking I'm gonna start doing this. That's what I thought.

Nick: Yeah. Okay, so maybe it's a trend.

Leah: [laughs] I feel like it's really gone the other way. She was hoping for us to shut it down, and then we're ...

Nick: Like, "No, people should do this!" [laughs] Yes, it's a movement.

Leah: I also think that she enjoys doing this. She likes to go out and search for the vases. It's like a part of something that brings her joy.

Nick: Right. Okay. So wonderful.

Leah: Wonderful.

Nick: So our next thing is a bonkers.

Leah: Bonkers!

Nick: And it's quote, "Recently, we were at the airport sitting in the back of the waiting area at our gate. We knew the flight was delayed, so I got comfortable. I tucked my suitcase under my legs and used it as a foot rest. I made sure I wasn't blocking traffic and no one was in front of us...just a wall. I was wearing sandals. A grown man walked by, reached down and tickled my toes and said, 'coochie coo!' I was dumbstruck and my husband was so mad he almost got out of his seat. It was a 'did that just happen?' moment. It felt so gross. Who does that? In what world is it okay to touch a stranger's feet?"

Leah: I passed out. I actually physically responded by curling my toes under my own person.

Nick: "Coochie coo."

Leah: "Coochie coo." In what world?

Nick: I mean, what's worse? Having a man touch your toes or the "coochie coo" part?

Leah: I mean, it really is... I can't... That "who does that?" I felt the "who does that?" so deep. Who does that? I would love to follow that person through the airport and be like, "who are you?"

Nick: Yeah. And in what world? Like, walk me through it. Help me understand how we arrived at this. You're walking by, you see a woman minding her own business, waiting for her flight. She happens to be wearing sandals. And you just are compelled to reach over?

Leah: Touch another human being...

Nick: ...and say, "Coochie coo."

Leah: "Coochie coo" is so scary.

Nick: It is a little scary. It is a little scary, yeah. So, who does that? Well, that guy. That guy does it.

Leah: What?

Nick: Yeah, no. This is this is a bonkers. This is the very definition of a bonkers. So, thank you for sending it to us. And do you have a bonkers for us? Or a question or a repent? We'll take it all. Please send it to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Coochie coo.

Nick: Bye!

Leah: Bye!