Sending Holiday Cards, Finding Bear Sculls, Dropping Umbrellas, and More

Nick: Do you leave spoons in your glasses? Do you not return holiday wishes? Do you bring the outdoors in? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Let's get in it!

Nick: So for today's amuse-bouche, I want to talk about iced tea. So Leah, do you like iced tea?

Leah: I do. I love iced tea.

Nick: So in researching this, there apparently is a bit of disagreement about whether or not it is "iced" tea or "ice" tea. Is there a D at the end of the word "iced?"

Leah: I've seen this disagreement about coffee as well, so I—I've seen it both ways, and every time I write it I think, "Which one's it gonna be?"

Nick: [laughs] So interestingly, some people feel like there's actually a distinction between the two—that iced with a D at the end is when you take hot tea and pour it over ice, whereas ice, no D, is when you have tea that is brewed normally and then allowed to cool naturally, and then ice is added so that I guess we're not gonna, like, dilute the tea with ice. I guess this is the thought. And so that's interesting.

Leah: It's very interesting. If people were using it in that way, like that's when they added a D and not a D, it would make so much sense. But I don't think that that's what's happening.

Nick: No, actually I don't think that's what's happening at all, because I think ice tea—where we don't really pronounce the D—is just easier to say.

Leah: I mean, it's really not hard to say the other one. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Well I mean, I think me, with my California accent where I love dropping consonants, like, I like ice tea. Like, I go to Monnerey, California, I don't go to Monterey, California. So I'm gonna have ice tea. But also ice cream used to be iced cream, I-C-E-D. And then we just dropped the D at some point in history. But originally, ice cream was iced cream, so I feel like it is okay for iced tea to become ice tea. But also, can we just, like, stop correcting people's grammar? Like, just let it go. Like, you know what I mean when I refer to one of these things.

Leah: [laughs] I don't know why it reminds me, but it reminds me when people go, "It's actually Frankenstein's monster." [laughs]

Nick: Right. The same—same thing. Correct. Yes. It's not Frankenstein, it's Frankenstein's monster. Right. Okay. So it's just if you know what somebody's meaning to say and you get it, it is not necessary to correct them. And that's not even what this amuse-bouche is about. This is just a little bonus. This is an amuse-bouche for the amuse-bouche. It's an amuse for the amuse.

Leah: Oh! Wow. We are getting ...

Nick: Inception.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: So for today's amuse-bouche, let's go back to iced tea. And you like it. And so you're at a restaurant and they bring you iced tea. How nice! And you squeeze a lemon into it, and you maybe add some sugar and you stir it with that nice long iced tea spoon. And then the question is: what do you do with this spoon?

Leah: I'd just like to take a moment to shout out that long spoon because I always enjoy it.

Nick: It's a great spoon. I think the iced tea spoon is one of the best spoons, because I enjoy eating other things with it too. So ...

Leah: It's great for a sundae.

Nick: Oh I mean, unparalleled. I mean, that's really where it shines.

Leah: Unparalleled!

Nick: Yeah. No, it is. Yeah. No, it is a tool that has no equal.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So you have stirred your iced tea, and you have a spoon that is now wet with tea. And so where does it go? What do you do with the spoon?

Leah: I'm gonna take the spoon out, Otherwise it's just gonna keep hitting my nose.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Unless I hold it with my finger over the cup, and then squeeze the spoon handle to the side.

Nick: Right.

Leah: But I don't know why I would do that when I could just take it out.

Nick: Okay. And you take it out and put it where?

Leah: I'm probably gonna put it on my neighbor's plate, or ...

Nick: [laughs] Okay. No really, where are you gonna put it?

Leah: Oh, you didn't think I was being serious?

Nick: I mean, I was hoping you weren't, so I just asked it in that way.

Leah: I do feel like sometimes I've gotten a little, like, a bread plate with my iced tea.

Nick: Yeah, but if there was no plate, you just sat down. There are no plates on the table.

Leah: You know what? I'm gonna withhold the information of what I would actually do with it, because I feel like it will be used against me in court.

Nick: [laughs] I mean, if this is court, then yes. So first, a little history. So iced tea, definitely an American thing, for sure. Because we love ice. We love ice. And there's a lot of reasons for this, a lot of reasons why Americans love ice. And it's one of the things when Americans go to Europe—or actually anywhere else in the world—and we order any beverage and you're like, "Why is this this temperature? This is not the temperature I'm interested in." So it is this amazing cultural thing that is fairly unique to America. So we'll talk about why another day, but just ice, it's a thing.

Nick: And so it started in the 1800s, this iced tea thing, because that is when ice kind of became a thing. And it started out boozy, like so many things did. And non-boozy iced tea pops up in the late 1800s. And then there was a World's Fair in 1904 and people had it there. And these World's Fairs they really, like, kickstarted a lot of foods. Like, a lot of foods that are now popular, like, you can trace it back to World's Fairs. So hotbeds of innovation.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And then before World War II, iced tea in the United States was made either with green tea or black tea, kind of in equal measure. People just made it with either. But during World War II, our supply of green tea was cut off. All that came from China, Japan, and so that was just not available to us in the United States. We were only getting black tea via the British and their Indian colonies. And so it was all black tea from thereon out. And after World War II, we never switched back. So that's why most iced tea in the United States today is just black tea.

Nick: And I was looking, the Tea Association of the United States—which is a thing that exists—said that 75 percent to 80 percent of all tea consumed in the United States is iced.

Leah: Oh, wow!

Nick: That's like a very high percentage.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Right? Very high percentage. So all that is very interesting. So let's go back to you with your spoon, this wet iced tea spoon. And so there are some etiquette rules, of course, and we need to talk about them.

Leah: Hit me with it.

Nick: So the issue here is that there's actually several rules that conflict, and this is why this is a little bit of a puzzle. So one of the rules that we always want to try and follow is that you never put a used utensil back on the table, but then there's also a rule that you don't leave a spoon in a glass and drink from it. And then there's also, like, this third rule—doesn't come up that often, but it does get mentioned—that you don't put a spoon that was used for stirring on a plate that's used for food. That's very obscure, but that is on the books. [laughs]

Leah: Rock and a hard place.

Nick: Right. So, like, what are we supposed to do with this? And so the etiquette greats have weighed in on this topic. And so Amy Vanderbilt, definitely an authority, she says quote, "As iced tea is usually served without a small service plate beneath it, many are puzzled as to what to do with the spoon once the beverage has been stirred. When there is no plate beneath the drink, the long spoon is left in the glass with the handle held towards the far side with the first and second fingers while one drinks. This is admittedly awkward procedure, but the only possible one if there is no service plate." So Amy Vanderbilt, she suggests doing what you do, which is like you just hold the spoon at the back of the glass and just hope for the best.

Leah: Yeah, you at home couldn't see my act out, but that's exactly what I was doing with the fingers on the back of the glass.

Nick: And a lot of etiquette people agree with Amy, and I—hmm.

Leah: I'm not saying I do do that, I'm saying one could do that.

Nick: One definitely can do that. And according to Amy Vanderbilt, one should do that. But here's the thing, Amy: you are an etiquette authority, and you can just tell people: serve iced tea with a service plate or a coaster or a place to put the spoon. Like, you could tell people that. Amy is not telling people that. She's like, "Well, people don't do it but, like, you're not allowed to take the spoon out of the glass." But it's like, Amy, you have an opportunity here.

Leah: To change the world!

Nick: She could change the world. Right. I mean, you're, like, saying, like, "Oh, it's not a good idea to serve it without a plate but, like, I'm not gonna tell you to do it." And it's like, well, if you don't tell us, like who?

Leah: If not who, when? [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: That's not—that's not the right way to say it.

Nick: But are there any more sane people out there? Who can we call on when we need a dose of etiquette reality?

Leah: Nicholas Layton.

Nick: No, no. We go to Judith Martin.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Of course, Miss Manners. She's who we need in times of etiquette confusion. So she says quote, "The earliest iced tea etiquette suggested saucers for iced tea glasses, but failed to make them mandatory, resulting in wet tablecloths. The proposed solution of making iced tea an exception to the rule against leaving spoons in drinks resulted in a number of damaged noses. Miss Manners suggests going back to providing saucers. The polite person not given one can only prop the iced tea spoon against whatever plate is available."

Leah: I'm glad she brought up the noses because this is what I'm saying.

Nick: Yes, it's very awkward and it's like, of course, take it out of the glass. Do not leave it in the glass, and just put it on something that is not the table. And an option which is not discussed here: you can ask for a plate if you need to. If it has not been provided to you, you can ask, "Oh, excuse me. What would you like me to do with my iced tea spoon?" Or, "Excuse me, may I have a side plate for my iced tea spoon?"

Leah: I think you could just put it on a cocktail napkin.

Nick: Or I would do a cocktail napkin, yes. I mean, I think any of these things would be fine. I think we just don't want to leave it in the glass.

Leah: I feel like if I was a server—I mean, I haven't—I feel like if—when I was a server and somebody said, "What would you like me to do with my spoon?" I would have a giggle fest.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. No, you would be like, "Well, I know we can put it."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] But I mean, you get my point, which is like, I feel like there is an option to not just suffer with a spoon in the glass, which is like what Amy and all these people want you to do. And it's like, we don't have to live this way.

Leah: We don't have to live this way!

Nick: Now I did come across this very curious passage in the 1945 edition of Emily Post's book, which I need your help, Leah, in terms of determining what are we talking about.

Leah: [laughs] Okay.

Nick: [laughs] So Emily Post talks about iced tea spoons and the whole glass thing, and she's like, "That's what's happening." But then she adds some weird exception that takes place at a soda fountain. So she says quote, "At a soda fountain, you may lay it on the marble counter or table after tasting, which practically dries the spoon. You should not stir your drink around, however, and then let soda or orangeade run in a wet smear on either table or counter." So this sounds like you can lick your spoon, which practically dries it, and then leave it on the counter if it's a soda fountain.

Leah: That is what I heard. And to be quite candid, I was up top when you said, "What do you do?" I was gonna say "I lick it."

Nick: I knew that that's what was happening. Yeah, you lick it and you put it back on the table.

Leah: I wasn't gonna bring it up, but since it's been brought up otherwise.

Nick: I mean, Emily brought it up.

Leah: Yeah. So that seems like a solid plan to me, instead of waiting for a third party to come in and figure out where I can put my spoon, you know?

Nick: Yeah. But, like, how interesting that there's this, like, soda fountain exception. And so I was thinking, like, okay, what is the modern day soda fountain? Because we don't really have soda fountains anymore in the same way. So does this just mean, like, if you're in a restaurant that's soda fountain-esque, fast casual, that doesn't have linens ...

Leah: I was gonna say no linen. They're saying no linen.

Nick: Right. So then maybe it's okay. Maybe it's okay. I don't know how I feel about it.

Leah: Because there's no drips on the table. There's no drips on the table, there's no linen.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And you have licked it.

Nick: Right. You have licked it.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Which Emily Post—let me just see if I have that right. Yes. Emily Post says I guess that's okay. So, you know, I'm always being surprised.

Leah: Go, Emily!

Nick: Yeah, maybe she's full of surprises. I guess this is one of them.

Leah: She'd rather us do something in a pragmatic, utilitarian way than have our noses thwacked with metal spoons.

Nick: [laughs] I mean, how wonderful and refreshing to hear this from Emily Post.

Leah: Refreshing, just like an iced tea.

Nick: Oh, nicely done!

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and in the mail.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about holiday cards.

Leah: Which definitely feels very fraught to me.

Nick: Well, I think a lot of people have a lot of feelings about the holidays in general, and how we celebrate it or not celebrate it, but I think for today's discussion, I guess I just want to highlight that there is a tradition in the United States that at the end of the year, people do contact other people with sort of innocuous greetings of some sort. And so sometimes these are for a religion, sometimes they are for a tradition, sometimes they're for a vague sense of season, sometimes they're a business just wanting more of your business in the following calendar year, like, all sorts of different ways people communicate. But, like, there is an enhanced number of communications this time of year, and we will just call those holiday cards. And whether or not you like this tradition, it does exist. So let's just talk about some of the etiquette considerations around all this.

Leah: I mean, you know, I love this tradition.

Nick: Right. Yeah. I mean, this is right up your alley. So do you send holiday cards? I mean, I get one from you but, like, does anybody else?

Leah: I mean, don't—don't tell everybody. I have been—I send different versions of holiday cards.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Like, I have the end-of-the-year thank yous that I send out to people that I've worked with, people who lighten my day regularly throughout the year.

Nick: Right.

Leah: Which is just like a thank you, end-of-year, seasonal, something fun. I try to get, like, something with a dog with a sweater.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: And then I have my holiday cards to, like, friends and family.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And some years I don't get a lot out because I like to, like, write a—you know, they're all different. So I like to write a thing, and sometimes I just don't have my life together. I'll be completely frank about that.

Nick: Yeah. So actually the first thing on my list is: do you have to send cards? And no, it is not required. It is not required. However, I do think it's a good idea to reciprocate. So if somebody sent you a holiday card, then it's a good idea to send one back if you want to stay on their list next year.

Leah: I always have a box of New Year's cards—PS, so when you didn't get them out in time—because it is an undertaking, and there are people that you still wanted to reach out to, I switch those cards over into the New Year's cards, and then I—if they're gonna be later on.

Nick: Right. Oh, that's excellent. Yeah, it's always good to have a stationery wardrobe full of lots of different options. So then the question is: when is the optimal arrival time? And I guess it depends on what is the greeting. If it is for a specific holiday, well then I guess we want it to arrive before that holiday. So if it is for Christmas specifically, then December 25 is a hard deadline there. And so you would want your card to arrive presumably before this holiday.

Leah: Yes. And then if I'm sending more like business season's greetings, "Thank you for—" and then, you know, I try to specifically list what I'm thankful for, I try to send it out—time that before they left for vacation, they would get it.

Nick: Oh, that's very thoughtful. Right. So you want it to arrive at their office or whatever before you know they're gonna be out of office.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Oh, that's very sophisticated.

Leah: Oh, I mean, I have my moments.

Nick: Yeah. No, this is a good moment.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Now there is a way people do weaponize this.

Leah: What?

Nick: And this is—I know, people weaponizing etiquette? Um, unbelievable!

Leah: People weaponizing cards with dogs wearing scarfs?

Nick: Oh, yes.

Leah: I refuse.

Nick: Oh, yes they are. So here's how this works. And I'm gonna—I'm going to give you this information not so that you will use it yourself, but so that you will be aware that this is a thing that some people out there might be capable of. And so the idea is I want to send you a holiday card, and I want to do it in such a way that you will receive it but if I wasn't already on your list, you will not have an opportunity to reciprocate in time. And so I will try to time my card to you such that it will arrive, like, on the 24th, so that all you could do if you wanted to send me a holiday card back, would be to try to get it to the post office that day. Now it's tricky because you don't want to wait too long and then they send theirs before yours. So this becomes a game. But ...

Leah: I cannot believe that people ...

Nick: There are people who do wait to try and test you and make it too late for you to reciprocate, yes.

Leah: I don't—I don't understand the end game here.

Nick: [laughs] I mean, it's I think just to prove a point.

Leah: That you weren't thinking of them? That they were thinking of you?

Nick: Yeah, basically.

Leah: Well, maybe that person has a lot going on and they couldn't get to it.

Nick: Yeah. No, I do not participate in this. I'm just saying that I am aware that this is the thing that has happened in the world.

Leah: I do think that if you feel hurt that someone didn't send a Christmas card, remember it often has nothing to do with us. It's that person is probably very busy, something happened, you know, there—who knows what's going on? And also, some people are just great with cards.

Nick: Right? Yeah, as we know with all this correspondence, like, there's just some people who just aren't into it, aren't good at it, don't want to do it. And so that's just what that is. It's not personal.

Leah: I look forward to every year UNICEF makes new holiday cards for—the kids make them, and the money—some of the money goes to UNICEF, and I look forward to seeing the new collection, I send those out. But some years I get more out than I do others because—but I think people are doing—I don't believe this story that you said that people are weaponizing it.

Nick: Oh—oh, it's—it is a thing that exists in the world. I feel like the number of people who do it I think is very small, but there are people who are definitely mindful of when cards are sent, when they're received, who didn't reciprocate, who did, when that happened. Oh yeah, there are people who definitely, like, keep track of this sort of stuff. I don't think it's a great use of your bandwidth but, like, you do you.

Leah: Also, I think some people just have, like, a stack of cards, they sign their name, and they're sending it out to their group, which is lovely. And then some people do those holiday cards where they do like a full year sum up of everything that happened.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And they send those out. And then some people are handwriting separate cards, so we're all on different ...

Nick: Yeah. People have very different approaches to the level of communication. Right. And there's no right or wrong way to do it. I mean, I think the idea is just like, "Oh, I was thinking of you," and, like, isn't that nice?

Leah: That's what I think it should be. "I was thinking of you," and isn't that nice? And when it becomes this, like, panic chore, I think it's sort of ...

Nick: It definitely makes it less fun. I mean, this should actually be enjoyable for both the person sending it and receiving it. Like, at the end of the day, if it's not enjoyable then, like, what are we doing?

Leah: What are we doing?

Nick: We do need to remember, like, oh, this should actually be fun.

Leah: It should be fun, and it should be a touching base with people we care about. And we all have some years where we don't have it together.

Nick: Yeah. No, that's ...

Leah: Sometimes many years. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So the next thing on my list is: it is nice to acknowledge receiving a card. So regardless of whether or not you've sent one or not, like, if you get a nice card from somebody, it's nice, just like next time you see them, or you could text them or email them, like, "Hey, got your card. Thank you so much." Like, that's very nice.

Leah: Yeah, I love that. I—also they're so fun to get cards. I'll text somebody, "I got your card!"

Nick: Next, a big topic is: are you allowed to send electronic greetings? How do we feel about the email greeting?

Leah: I think some people are really into holiday-themed emails because, you know, they'll either put your face in it and then you're dancing on a reindeer.

Nick: Right. Oh, yes.

Leah: Or it, like, is like this beautiful illustration that slowly comes to life on your computer screen.

Nick: So if it's animated, you're on board.

Leah: Well, I kind of feel like however somebody wants to reach out.

Nick: Right. And I think just something with all communication is, an email is a little more temporary. Somebody's not gonna probably print it out and hang it on the mantel, and they're not gonna necessarily keep it forever. So it does have a different sort of flavor and impact than a handwritten card, but it is still nice to be thought of, and it's nice to receive a note, I guess. I think if you are gonna send an email or something electronic, it is nice to try and personalize it a little bit, because otherwise it's just like a mass email. Like, I don't know about that. So if you can, can we, like, add a little note that is sort of specific to each person?

Leah: Yeah, I think if I got a mass email that's like just a big BCC, and it was like ...

Nick: It loses a little of the flavor that we're trying to achieve.

Leah: It definitely lost a little something something.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Unless it was like a, "Hey, I'm having a holiday party. Hope you're having a—" you know, there was a reason it was a mass email.

Nick: Well, that's a whole other thing. That's different. Yeah, that's an invitation.

Leah: I'm just trying to—that's an invitation. I'm saying if there was some kind of information being relayed that was important, and they also threw in the holiday greeting in there, or the "great time this year," you know what I mean? Then I see why you did it that way.

Nick: Right. So next on my list is about inserting the cards into the envelope. Now we have actually talked about this on our show before, but based on the number of cards I do receive from you all at our P.O. box and how they are inserted into the envelope—which is something I do note—some people are not doing it correctly. So as a reminder, what you want to do is the fold needs to go down, because I use a letter opener and I don't want to slice your nice card in half. So the way it comes out of the envelope should be facing me and, like, available to open. And so the fold should go towards the bottom.

Leah: Just as a Nick reminder, and I want you all to know at home that Nick is looking deeply into my eyes when he says this, I believe it's a little reminder to me.

Nick: I mean, I just want all of us to be reminded that there is a correct way to do that. And so now that we know that there is a correct way to do that, then let's do it that way.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] That's all.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: That's all.

Leah: Received. Heard and received.

Nick: But it just makes so much more sense because, like, if you put something in the card like a check or a sticker then, like, it won't fall out. And then, like, I'll see it when I pull the card out of the envelope because it will come out with the card. Like, that makes sense. I won't slice the card with a letter opener. It will be facing the right way so, like, I don't have to turn it around. Like, it just makes so much sense for so many reasons.

Leah: Very pragmatic.

Nick: Yes. As a left handed person, I think you're actually a little out of luck because, like, it's not designed for that, but ...

Leah: The world is not designed for us, Nick. And we move forward.

Nick: And lastly, let's talk about dropping people from the list. So this is a thing that happens.

Leah: And I think this is specifically for people who have a very organized letter list that they mail out every year.

Nick: Yes. Yeah.

Leah: Not for people like me who are not so organized.

Nick: You don't keep track of the date the previous person's card was sent?

Leah: [laughs] No.

Nick: No, that's not a thing? There's not a column Excel spreadsheet?

Leah: There's no Excel spreadsheet. I've never opened up Excel.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. No, I mean, that's not a joke. Yeah.

Leah: And that's the kind of life I want to live, too. That I go through life with it having never been opened.

Nick: So holiday cards, I mean, these are some thoughts. So we hope everybody has a nice holiday season. And whether or not you express that in writing or not, I hope you have a nice one anyway.

Leah: And I think what Nick brought up earlier, there's so much pressure and stress around the holidays, and at the end of the day, it's supposed to be something that makes you feel nice because you feel like you're doing something nice.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And if it just brings chronic anxiety, I think we question, why are we doing this?

Nick: Yeah. No, that's a good lesson just for a lot of things. Yeah, if it's not fun then, like, what are we doing?

Leah: Because you have so much to take on during the holiday season.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, that's actually kind of the funny thing about, like, this whole exercise is that it is coming at a time of the year when there's, like, so much happening. Like, if this only could be a tradition for, like, late July, right? Like, it would make so much more sense if we said, like, "Season's greetings" at a time of the year when, like, oh, we actually have, like, maybe some downtime. So maybe we should actually make this like a July thing and just, like, shift it six months.

Leah: I mean, the thing is is that I love holiday cards because you put on your music—I mean, every—all of our listeners know, I put it on my music. I probably have a movie playing. I have a scented candle. It's a whole thing. It's a whole vibe.

Nick: Yeah. Although I think you'd be happy to have that vibe in July.

Leah: I mean, I would do both. I'm happy to do both. I'm happy to do it twice.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: Maybe in July, I can get all the people that I missed in December.

Nick: Oh, there you go. Yeah, you get to your list eventually. I mean, if only you had an Excel spreadsheet.

Leah: I don't need a spreadsheet.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I have you.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. Sad but true.

Leah: [laughs] Worked out great for me!

Nick: Yeah. Glad it worked out for somebody.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote. "I'm living in a university town, and my husband took me out for my birthday last Friday night. In this restaurant, it's a pretty tight squeeze. I sat on the bench facing my husband, and a young man sat at the next table also on the bench, facing his dinner partner, who seemed to be his dad. His dad spent the entire time haranguing him about his study habits, and told him that he was not on track to get his PhD, and it kind of ruined the meal for me for, like, 90 minutes. So my question is: what is the etiquette here? Should I have gone to the owner who, of course, knows us regulars there and asked to be seated at another table? Should I have made faces at this man indicating he should let up on his son? It was unbelievable. And I want to know what you think."

Leah: I couldn't not giggle at, "Should I have made faces at this man?"

Nick: Yeah. No, that definitely up your alley.

Leah: Well, and sometimes I have no control over making faces. Like, when something like that's happening, and it's right—I mean, when you're pushed up against people and they're right there being loud about something that's inappropriate, your face can't—sometimes can't not express like, "Really?"

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's on the table as an option. Sure.

Leah: No pun intended because you're at the table.

Nick: Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. [laughs] So I think this is a great example of pretending not to notice. Like, oh, can we do that? Can we use that etiquette trick, which is like, let's pretend this is not happening. Clearly we can't because it is just too close, too loud, too unpleasant.

Leah: And it seems to be for non stop.

Nick: Yeah. 90 minutes. The entire dining experience.

Leah: It does seem like an option that you can move tables.

Nick: Yes. And I think that would be perfectly fine. I think the nice etiquette way to handle it is to privately let the restaurant know that you would like to be re-sat, and if they can accommodate you, as you're getting up, not to make eye contact with those people to send them the signal, which is, "Oh, the reason why we're having to move is you people." That's very tempting. I would be very tempted. We would all be very tempted, which is like, you've inconvenienced us and now we have to move because of you. But it would be very nice if you didn't make eye contact and try to just be like, "Oh, there's a draft. And so we're just gonna get a different table."

Leah: I think you could also put your hand on the son's hand and say, "I'm so sorry. I can't even handle this for 90 minutes, how do you carry on?"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: [laughs] I mean, that would be ...

Leah: Is that an option?

Nick: Anything is an option. Whether or not it's a good option, I guess that's a different question. That would be amazing, though.

Leah: I mean, it's definitely not a good option, but I think it would be—honestly, if I was the third table in that party, I would slide off my seat onto the floor. It would just knock me right out of my socks.

Nick: [laughs] And I guess the faces thing, that's not a hard no. I think the question is, could you catch the dad's eye at a moment where you, like, felt startled. Like, oh, you said something very loud, so you just caught my eye. And then you kind of make a face of, like, oh, that's a stern thing you just said, and I heard that, obviously. Is there a way you can kind of convey that quickly, but as in, like, oh, I'm sorry, I overheard but, like, you were just quite loud in that moment?"

Leah: I don't think I would be making faces on purpose. Like, I would be—I would be taken aback that somebody's admonishing somebody loudly for 90 minutes straight.

Nick: Right. No, we don't want to react to every sentence with a facial reaction, which is like, "No! What? Really? Oh!" Like, that actually would be amazing if you actually reacted in real time to the conversation with dramatic facial gestures.

Leah: But I think if you've—sometimes you just react not on purpose, and that person who was talking maybe realizes, oh, I'm talking louder than I thought I was.

Nick: Well, but here's the thing. When you're at a table like this and the situation is, like, tight like this, like, there is no volume that I'm not gonna hear you. Like, even in a low-volume conversation, if you're having sort of an aggressive conversation, I'm gonna hear this. And because I've started to hear it, like, I can't not hear it anymore. Like, it's gonna be hard to tune out once I'm tuned in.

Leah: Oh, once you tune in, I tuned in on—I think I brought this up a few episodes ago. I tuned in on this group that was talking behind me at a concert.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I still hear it. I still know what their plans are.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I mean, the other option is you take your phone out and you start filming.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: You're like, "Oh, are we fighting in public? I gotta get it for the 'Gram."

Nick: Well, or the other option is you participate. Like, "I hear you guys are talking about being on track for a PhD. Tell me more. What are you studying? What's the deadline? Let's talk. Let's talk it through. Let's see, are we actually on track?" Maybe you could mediate.

Leah: [laughs] You could be like, "I would—I would love to try to mediate this. May I get involved?"

Nick: Yeah. "Like, I understand that there is some confusion about deadlines. It's my specialty. Let's talk about it."

Leah: "Since I'm already involved."

Nick: [laughs] Right.

Leah: "As you brought me into this, I would like to throw out some ideas."

Nick: I mean, I feel like that would be super problematic, but would definitely be something for the whiteboard.

Leah: Oh, I'm pretty sure all the ideas I've brought up have been problematic, but that was just for fun. I think that if we can't ignore it, we ...

Nick: Go somewhere else?

Leah: ... ask to be moved, as you said. And don't make it obvious that we're being moved because of them. But if we gave them a few looks beforehand to be like, "Hey, did you notice that you're being really loud?" and that went unchecked, then we could move.

Nick: Now let's say there's no other tables available. Do we ask the restaurant to say something? Is that weird?

Leah: I mean, I would.

Nick: Like, privately we ask, like, the manager, like, "Hey, do you have another table?" And they're like, "Oh, so sorry, we're totally booked." And, like, "Would you mind talking to table 12 about this uncomfortable conversation about PhDs?" I guess that's weird. Like, we can't have the restaurant do this.

Leah: Oh, I wouldn't be able to do that.

Nick: Right? Also, like, they'll know that you sort of tattled on them.

Leah: I mean, there's always the option that you could just—they're sitting right there, "Hey, we can all hear you, and it's sort of uncomfortable."

Nick: Okay. Okay. The polite, direct—yeah, I guess that would—I guess if we can't move and we couldn't bear it, it was just like, this is the worst night ever and we cannot tough it out and we really want to say something, that would be—I think that's in the world of possibilities. I mean, very uncomfortable because, like, there's no escape.

Leah: There's no escape, and it's definitely uncomfortable.

Nick: Regardless of how that conversation goes, we still have to sit next to them. I guess it depends on what course I'm on and what course they're on. I guess that's really the question. If we're both on our amuse-bouche, then it's like, oh.

Leah: Yes, but if you're already at your dessert, then why does it matter? You're on your way out.

Nick: Right. Yeah, that's how I would think about it, for sure.

Leah: I guess the third option is you put in earphones.

Nick: Earphones?

Leah: And then you say to your person across from you, "Hey, let's talk on the phone in our earbuds, because I can't hear you over this man admonishing his son next to us."

Nick: Okay. Well, you have to get big earphones like we use for podcasting. Right. Over the ear, big black broadcasting earphones.

Leah: Maybe you pull out walkie talkies and you walkie talkie each other across the table, and then when they look at you, you go, "Oh, we're walkie talking because we cannot hear over your arguing."

Nick: What if we build a fort out of menus?

Leah: Yes!

Nick: And we create a wall.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Yeah. Out of breadsticks or something.

Leah: When people are behaving in a way that's just not appropriate, maybe the only response is to do something wild like build a wall with menus and hide behind it.

Nick: [laughs] Okay, so I feel like we've got a lot of great ideas here.

Leah: We had a lot of ideas. "Great" is—that's in quotes.

Nick: So good luck with all that.

Leah: [laughs] I can't wait 'til this happens to one of our other listeners, because this happens.

Nick: Oh, all the time.

Leah: All the time.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, in New York City, any big city where they squeeze in way more tables than they should in a room.

Leah: And there's always somebody. I—you know, when you're next to a couple fight, it's totally different because you want to just get involved. I remember these ...

Nick: Yeah, that's actually fun. Like, I'm interested in sticking around for that.

Leah: I sat around and listened to this couple fight about a lamp. I mean, I'm pretty sure I live tweeted it.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: It was obviously not really about the lamp, but they were putting it all into the lamp. And it was phenomenal. But this is uncomfortable because it feels like you're ...

Nick: This is—yeah, this is just being nagged. Yeah. And that's not so much fun.

Leah: But if anybody in the future tries the menu fort option, please let us know.

Nick: Let us know! Yeah, we need photos or live tweet us from the fort.

Leah: [laughs] Yes.

Nick: "Coming to you live inside Cheesecake Factory fort." Well, the Cheesecake Factory could make a duplex out of that menu.

Leah: Well, also, they are gonna give you more space.

Nick: Oh, there's also that. Right. Yeah. I mean, so many reasons to go to the Cheesecake Factory.

Leah: I do love the Cheesecake Factory.

Nick: I've never been, but hear it's great.

Leah: I'm not shocked.

Nick: [laughs] So our next thing is an etiquette crime report.

Leah: Siren sound. Siren sound. Siren sound.

Nick: We're still working on it. We don't—we don't know—we don't know what the sound effect is.

Leah: But it's—we'll get there.

Nick: Yeah. We're gonna get there. So for today, we got a report ...

Leah: [laughs] I can't!

Nick: ... which is, "In a shared group house of women, we started to smell something really horrible in the basement. Two of us were moving furniture out through the back door, which was through one of the girls' rooms, and we found a bucket with murky water. It turned out to be a decomposing but now clean bear skull. I texted the girl whose room it was, and told her I was putting the bucket outside. She said, 'Don't touch my stuff. Put it back where you found it.' Nope!"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So we're—we're, like, cleaning off bear skulls in our room? Is that what's happening?

Leah: When this—just the opening sentence, "We started to smell something really horrible in the basement," I was like, where is this going? Is this—should this have been an actual crime report?

Nick: Yeah, did they use the wrong website? Right. Yes. [laughs] No, we're just, like, cleaning off decomposing bear skulls in our room.

Leah: I feel like if you're renting a room from somebody, and you're going to be doing anthropology studies or zoology studies, then we should have alerted people, "Hey, I'm gonna be doing—I've got some skull cleaning going on."

Nick: [laughs] Right. I feel like if this is one of your hobbies or vocations, I feel like this should be mentioned.

Leah: It definitely should have been brought up beforehand.

Nick: If you're gonna do it at home. What you do out of the house, have at it. If you want to clean your bear skulls somewhere else, no problem. You know, it doesn't affect my life. I think once you bring it home, I feel like there's some conversation around it.

K: Once you bring it home and we can smell it outside of your room.

Nick: Because I feel like—I've never smelled a decomposing bear skull, so I don't know, but I have a feeling that it's, like, not great.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah. I have a feeling that if I was to guess, it does not smell like chocolate chip cookies being baked.

Nick: Like, there's a reason Yankee Candle doesn't have this in their collection, right?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Is that the reason? It's, like, not a great scent? It's not commercially viable? There's no three wick version?

Leah: I mean, what else is in that room?

Nick: That's really the question. I mean, this is just what we know about. So ...

Leah: This is just what started to smell.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. Because, like, I feel like if you were cleaning off bear skulls, you've done it before. You'll do it again. What else are you doing? Right?

Leah: [laughs] Yes.

Nick: So thank you for filing this report with us. And as a reminder, you can send your crime reports to EtiquetteCrime.com. And we'll also take your questions, your vents, your repents, anything else. You can send it to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I would like to let you go first because I feel like I always get to go first, and I don't want to be ...

Nick: Okay. Delighted to.

Leah: I don't want to overstep the vent or repent.

Nick: Sure. So it's a quickie, but I feel like this happens a lot and it shouldn't. And so, like, let's talk about it. So I am in New York City, as I often am.

Leah: Um, is it a vent or a repent?

Nick: Oh, I'm so sorry. It's a vent.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Sorry.

Leah: I mean, we assumed, but ...

Nick: It was my internal monologue. But yes, this is a vent. And so I'm in New York. It is a rainy, rainy day, and I'm coming out of a drugstore. And I am trying to exit the drugstore, and a gentleman with the world's largest black golf umbrella—which it's a provocative size for New York City. I mean, like, what are we doing? But he has a very large—I mean, it's probably, I don't know, like, four or five feet across? Like, I mean, it's like a very substantial umbrella.

Leah: Whoa!

Nick: And so as he's about to enter the drugstore, what he does with his umbrella, he just drops it in front of the entrance like it's a microphone, just like, "Oh, I'm just dropping the mic." He just—fully opened umbrella. Not closed. He just drops it like, "I don't need this at the moment. I'm gonna walk into the drugstore." And he just leaves a perfectly open umbrella in front of the entrance. And because it is a very large umbrella, it is—it's blocking the entire entrance.

Leah: What?

Nick: It's like the entire width of the doorway. And I was there just as this was happening. And I audibly said, "All right?"

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] That was my— that was my whole reaction. I was like, "All right, that's what's happening." It's like my internal monologue now. But I audibly said the "All right" part. I was like, "All right." [laughs] But, like, what are you ...?

Leah: What are you doing?

Nick: And he just went into the drugstore and he, like, did his shopping, I guess. And I guess the idea is, like, he was gonna come back for it. And it's like, it looked like a very nice umbrella, like brand new, almost, so it was like, I'm pretty sure it had the closing mechanism available to it. And even if it didn't then, like, would we not—like, why are we just leaving it in front of the door? Like, what is happening? What is this instinct?

Leah: What is happening? Also, probably not gonna be there when you get back.

Nick: Oh definitely not. Yeah. And so then I was thinking, like, did he steal the umbrella from somebody else and doesn't care? Is that what it is? But then, like, it's a really rainy day and you're gonna want an umbrella when you get out of this drugstore. Like you're gonna want that umbrella again.

Leah: I almost would have had to hide in a corner and watch what happened when he came out.

Nick: Yeah. And he would be so sad that the umbrella was gone, but it was like he just dropped it like, "I don't have a care in the world, and I don't care who's around."

Leah: Who does that in front of the door?

Nick: I wish I had that confidence to just go through life just tossing umbrellas in front of people.

Leah: Just tossing umbrellas in front of doors.

Nick: I wish I had that sort of energy, just that tossed umbrella energy.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So and you Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I had a little repent that I thought not—not a full, not a big enough thing to be a full repent.

Nick: Ah, okay.

Leah: But if I—but if nothing happens this week, and then what?

Nick: Great! So what's happened?

Leah: So—venting.

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: I was going to repent, but ...

Nick: No need.

Leah: No need. No need.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So I'm driving down a narrow street.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I see a spot.

Nick: Great.

Leah: There's nobody—I'm about midway down the block. There's nobody behind me.

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: I mean, there's nobody even on the block yet. I pull into the—the car in front of the spot. I flip on my blinker. I'm about to back into the spot. This person comes driving down the block, so they came very fast.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So I do not start backing up into the spot because I will be at an angle at the speed that they're going, and I don't really trust this car, so I just stay there so they have enough room to get by me.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So then I can now see this—it's a woman. She's, like, literally right next to me. She starts honking and throwing her arms up at me, which—I don't know.

Nick: She's trying to send the signal of, like, "What are you doing?"

Leah: "You're in my way." I have to—but obviously, I was about to parallel park, but you're speeding down the block, and I don't want to get hit from the side, so I'm just gonna stay here until you go by me, and then I'll do it because you're obviously not stopping.

Nick: Oh, but I guess she was. [laughs]

Leah: But she wasn't. She ...

Nick: Oh, wait. She wasn't?

Leah: She wasn't stopping.

Nick: Oh, she didn't want that spot and thought you were just sort of like blocking it but weren't gonna be taking it?

Leah: No, she just wanted to go down the road as fast as possible, and she had to, like, slow down to get by me, between me and the other car.

Nick: Oh, that's what was happening?

Leah: Yes!

Nick: But there was enough width in the street for her to drive by you.

Leah: There was, but she had to, like, slow down partially and it, like, irritated her. I wish you could have seen this face she made.

Nick: Oh, so the fact that you were, like, double parking, like, annoyed her.

Leah: Yes, even though I was obviously about to try to parallel park, but she sped up too quickly. It's really though, when people throw their hands up at you, I—do you remember this ...

Nick: Oh, yes. So this is not the first time this has happened to you.

Leah: This is not the—I went—if you haven't been all the way through our catalog, I lost my mind in a mall parking lot at this man who threw his arms up at me. It's when people—in both circumstances, this was of their doing. Like, I would have been parallel parking and you could have just—but you were speeding and didn't give me the chance, so then now that's somehow my fault and you're gonna throw your arms up at me? I almost went through the window at her. I couldn't ...

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Yes. No, people who are rude do throw up their hands. This is a common pairing.

Leah: Well, it's like, sorry you had to slow down because you were speeding down the block and I didn't have time to back up into the spot.

Nick: And also, it would just be so easy to just continue on with your day. Like, there's no need to stop.

Leah: Just continue on!

Nick: And actually, if you were annoyed that you were slowed down, you have now made this even slower because you've chosen to now make it slower.

Leah: Right, because I'm now out of my car chasing you down the block, and now we're all involved.

Nick: Well, I'm sorry that this keeps happening to you where drivers are just rude. They're just rude.

Leah: It's like drivers and airplanes.

Nick: Yeah, there is something about vehicles. There's something about vehicles.

Leah: It's vehicles. People become ...

Nick: Different people.

Leah: They become rabid.

Nick: Well, our work continues, Leah.

Leah: Our work continues.

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: Well, I learned that Emily Post and I share a similar view of the long spoon.

Nick: [laughs] That's right. And actually, that's what I learned too, that you and Emily Post have something in common. Who knew?

Leah: That is where the two roads meet.

Nick: Yes, that Venn diagram overlap? Very small, but it exists.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we want you to help make our show happen. So go to our website, click on Monthly Membership and see if it's something you'd like to do, because we would really love to have your support. And so check it out.

Leah: We would so appreciate it!

Nick: And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: So I was performing at an event that was at an art space that was very—there wasn't a lot of people in the area, so when you parked, it was like very empty long streets and it felt a little not safe. And I had to leave early because I was running to another gig, and people walked me to my car. They set up, like, a group of people to walk me, and then I drove those people back to the venue. [laughs] But it was so nice, and I felt so watched over and taken care of. And I didn't have to ask. They—somebody just volunteered, which really—was really nice and I deeply appreciate it.

Nick: Oh, that is nice! And for me, we got a great email which is quote, "Thank you for contributing to world peace in the form of your winsome podcast. I get a special thrill when a question is read, and my immediate response is voiced by one of you two kindred spirits. This show really has improved my life. Now I'm not so bothered by those outside of my inner circle, and I'm much more likely to address problems with those I care about most. Plus, I've learned lots of little tidbits for future small talk. Thanks again, and please keep up the good work."

Leah: That is so nice!

Nick: Isn't that lovely? I mean, how lovely. It totally makes my day.

Leah: Oh my goodness, thank you so much!

Nick: Thank you.